Debate Report #2
On December 12th, Mary, Michaela and Ilayda argued that he was and while they fought very hard to sway the judges; Jenn Yannick and Nick, they couldn’t quite beat out their opposition. Jessica, Melissa and Kelsey, the negative side, used the sympathetic approach to explain that the Hamlet (or Paul, as he was to be called in this debate) simply had so many traumatic experiences and they simply took a toll on him. Enhancing their negativity to Hamlet’s so-called craziness, Jessica, Melissa and Kelsey all dressed up as the Phantom of the Opera, Elphaba and Zorro. This gave them extra points and aided in their winning of the debate.
During the rebuttal, the affirmative side, especially Mary, called out as many logical fallacies as they could. Probably none of them were missed. There was a hasty generalization when the negative side used the argument of “many people” without statistics from anywhere. They went on to say refute the previous argument made, and that people can still become mentally ill (in this case crazy) when they have had horrible events happen to them or around them. The negative side went on to explain that they were aware that facts had not been given, and that it had merely been a thesis that had been stated--not proof. This was interesting, as most people would deny the fact that there was no real information, or that it was information. The rebuttals from both sides were handled very well.
The affirmative side, in their next argument gave the description of what medical illness was—and what was covered under that definition. This argument was used in what seemed like a bit of begging the question, as that point was used over and over against most of the negative side’s arguments. Many of the different types of mental illnesses were described and it was pointed out how Hamlet fit into many of the categories. However, not all mental illnesses mean that one is crazy. Using many quotes from the play, the negative side went on to explain how the one person in the play who would want to call him crazy, didn’t.
The ghost in the play, argued the affirmative side, was never proved to be real. They argued that it Hamlet really just imagined it in his delirium and that the guards there were just too scared to disagree with him. This became a hot topic to discuss during the rebuttals and the free-for-all. The free-for-all was again dominated mainly by one person, Mary this time. It again also included a lot of yelling. The negative side’s conclusion was quite amusing, but made a good point when Jessica mentioned that Melissa rambled on, as Hamlet did and she definitely is not crazy.
Wednesday, January 21, 2009
Tuesday, January 20, 2009
Could Shakespearian Tragedy Be Better Than Modern Tragedy?
Debate Report #1
Could Shakespearian Tragedy Be Better Than Modern Tragedy?
In the early afternoon of December 11th, it was proven that newer isn’t always better; the modern tragedy was declared second best to its Shakespearian counterpart in what turned out to be a strong and loud offense from Steph Boucher, Stephanie MacDonald and Rebecca. In defense of the modern tragedy, Dawson, Justin and Ben were weak in their arguments, but quite strong in fallacies and jokes towards the opposing girls. Opening the debate with flattery to the judges, Seth, Colton and Logan, the affirmative team was interrupted by the girls who took off their sweaters to reveal shirts for the judges. Unfortunately, however, interruptions were not allowed during the debate. Justin went on to explain how modern tragedy fits today’s society better, however there was some contradiction present in his argument.
The offensive side came strong into their argument with Stephanie Boucher defining what exactly can be considered tragedy. Describing what the main character must be like and giving a solid base for their point of view there was a lot of information to contain. She went on to explain why people might like Shakespearian tragedy better but had to be cut short as her argument would have gone over the time limit. Ben began the rebuttal by calling a fallacy, ‘appeal to boredom’ and although not considered a true fallacy, it still got a lot of laughter from the crowd, and it no doubt appealed to the judges.
Stephanie showed she was not at all fazed by the opposition as she reminded everyone what tragedy was, and gave some good insight into both Hamlet and Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. Even if there was a lot of talking going on, one can’t help but agree how Shakespearian tragedy better fits the definition. The rebuttal came and the affirmative team argued that modern tragedy was something new, original; something people would like better. There was, however, some confusion as the speaking got too quick to be completely audible. Apparently everyone is also so civilized blood and guts are not wanted in stories and such anymore; the negative side pointed out that we clearly would not have horror movies and the likes if that were the case. The debate points are slowly dwindling from the negative side now, (the affirmative having been somewhat dwindling the entire time.)
As a defense, blonde jokes were sent at the offensive team, who all happened to be blonde. During the free-for-all a lot of the audience joined in during this time, but the person who was heard the most was still Stephanie Boucher. It was also stated by the negative team that the affirmative side did not have much to argue, as they were making more jokes that valid arguments. Fairly and inarguably, the negative side won: they didn’t have too many point losses, and they definitely had the better arguments.
Could Shakespearian Tragedy Be Better Than Modern Tragedy?
In the early afternoon of December 11th, it was proven that newer isn’t always better; the modern tragedy was declared second best to its Shakespearian counterpart in what turned out to be a strong and loud offense from Steph Boucher, Stephanie MacDonald and Rebecca. In defense of the modern tragedy, Dawson, Justin and Ben were weak in their arguments, but quite strong in fallacies and jokes towards the opposing girls. Opening the debate with flattery to the judges, Seth, Colton and Logan, the affirmative team was interrupted by the girls who took off their sweaters to reveal shirts for the judges. Unfortunately, however, interruptions were not allowed during the debate. Justin went on to explain how modern tragedy fits today’s society better, however there was some contradiction present in his argument.
The offensive side came strong into their argument with Stephanie Boucher defining what exactly can be considered tragedy. Describing what the main character must be like and giving a solid base for their point of view there was a lot of information to contain. She went on to explain why people might like Shakespearian tragedy better but had to be cut short as her argument would have gone over the time limit. Ben began the rebuttal by calling a fallacy, ‘appeal to boredom’ and although not considered a true fallacy, it still got a lot of laughter from the crowd, and it no doubt appealed to the judges.
Stephanie showed she was not at all fazed by the opposition as she reminded everyone what tragedy was, and gave some good insight into both Hamlet and Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. Even if there was a lot of talking going on, one can’t help but agree how Shakespearian tragedy better fits the definition. The rebuttal came and the affirmative team argued that modern tragedy was something new, original; something people would like better. There was, however, some confusion as the speaking got too quick to be completely audible. Apparently everyone is also so civilized blood and guts are not wanted in stories and such anymore; the negative side pointed out that we clearly would not have horror movies and the likes if that were the case. The debate points are slowly dwindling from the negative side now, (the affirmative having been somewhat dwindling the entire time.)
As a defense, blonde jokes were sent at the offensive team, who all happened to be blonde. During the free-for-all a lot of the audience joined in during this time, but the person who was heard the most was still Stephanie Boucher. It was also stated by the negative team that the affirmative side did not have much to argue, as they were making more jokes that valid arguments. Fairly and inarguably, the negative side won: they didn’t have too many point losses, and they definitely had the better arguments.
Wednesday, January 14, 2009
Poem Analysis and Biblio.
Here it is. I think it's going up on Kelsey's blog as well, but I thought I'd post it here too.
Those Dancing Days Are Gone by W.B Yeats.
The theme in the poem Those Dancing Days Are Gone by William B. Yeats can be interpreted in more way than one; but however one chooses to interpret, it will always have some similarities to what Yeats was talking about. For example, there is the obvious message that something happy or perhaps celebratory is now gone. In this case what is gone is someone’s wife and children. In the first verse it says ‘wrapping that foul body up in as foul a rag:’, which would be the body being wrapped up after death. This could also be looked at as a woman who has lost the youngness of her life. The young days of dancing and fun have disappeared and now she has to work and have responsibilities.
There is a flaw though to this latter interpretation, as in the second verse it says how ‘the children he gave, are somewhere sleeping like a top under a marble flag?’ A marble flag could be a gravestone; suggesting that her children are dead as well as her. The last part of the sentence is also a rhetorical question which enables the reader to think even more about what point is being conveyed.
The rhyming scheme is, as in almost all Irish poetry, a basic pattern of: ABABCDCD. The Irish poets were not ones to come up with new concepts for poetry, and Those Dancing Days Are Gone is no exception to that rule. The use of allusions is present in the poem, ‘I carry the sun in a golden cup, the moon in a silver bag’ is referring to, as is no surprise in Irish poetry, (especially from Yeats) a myth from the Irish. This is also repetition—those two lines show up at the end of every verse.
Notice as well that the sun, “in a cup” which is open at the top, while a “silver bag” would be closed, and not necessarily letting light out. Hiding the sad feelings, letting the happiness show through. This is not necessarily the actual meaning; however one could quite well interpret it as this. In this poem, there is not a lot of imaging using comparisons, but rather ideas are written to mean just what the words say. This is again something typical to Irish poetry; although there can be an underlying meaning as well.
The third and final verse is written about the burial; the lines of ’a man may put pretence away who leans upon a stick’ has short alliterations which when reading, help the poem flow better. This verse also talks about someone who takes care of the burial, perhaps, of people. He would be someone who might lean upon a stick—or a shovel, and to him it would not matter who he was burying.
Altogether the poem Those Dancing Days Are Gone fashions a sad yet optimistic story that does show how to someone, those dancing days really are gone.
W.B Yeats bibliography.
http://www.poetry-archive.com/y/yeats_w_b.html
http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/wbyeats.htm
http://www.online-literature.com/yeats/
http://famouspoetsandpoems.com/poets/william_butler_yeats/poems/10324
Those Dancing Days Are Gone by W.B Yeats.
The theme in the poem Those Dancing Days Are Gone by William B. Yeats can be interpreted in more way than one; but however one chooses to interpret, it will always have some similarities to what Yeats was talking about. For example, there is the obvious message that something happy or perhaps celebratory is now gone. In this case what is gone is someone’s wife and children. In the first verse it says ‘wrapping that foul body up in as foul a rag:’, which would be the body being wrapped up after death. This could also be looked at as a woman who has lost the youngness of her life. The young days of dancing and fun have disappeared and now she has to work and have responsibilities.
There is a flaw though to this latter interpretation, as in the second verse it says how ‘the children he gave, are somewhere sleeping like a top under a marble flag?’ A marble flag could be a gravestone; suggesting that her children are dead as well as her. The last part of the sentence is also a rhetorical question which enables the reader to think even more about what point is being conveyed.
The rhyming scheme is, as in almost all Irish poetry, a basic pattern of: ABABCDCD. The Irish poets were not ones to come up with new concepts for poetry, and Those Dancing Days Are Gone is no exception to that rule. The use of allusions is present in the poem, ‘I carry the sun in a golden cup, the moon in a silver bag’ is referring to, as is no surprise in Irish poetry, (especially from Yeats) a myth from the Irish. This is also repetition—those two lines show up at the end of every verse.
Notice as well that the sun, “in a cup” which is open at the top, while a “silver bag” would be closed, and not necessarily letting light out. Hiding the sad feelings, letting the happiness show through. This is not necessarily the actual meaning; however one could quite well interpret it as this. In this poem, there is not a lot of imaging using comparisons, but rather ideas are written to mean just what the words say. This is again something typical to Irish poetry; although there can be an underlying meaning as well.
The third and final verse is written about the burial; the lines of ’a man may put pretence away who leans upon a stick’ has short alliterations which when reading, help the poem flow better. This verse also talks about someone who takes care of the burial, perhaps, of people. He would be someone who might lean upon a stick—or a shovel, and to him it would not matter who he was burying.
Altogether the poem Those Dancing Days Are Gone fashions a sad yet optimistic story that does show how to someone, those dancing days really are gone.
W.B Yeats bibliography.
http://www.poetry-archive.com/y/yeats_w_b.html
http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/wbyeats.htm
http://www.online-literature.com/yeats/
http://famouspoetsandpoems.com/poets/william_butler_yeats/poems/10324
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